Leading in Times of Uncertainty

Gina Rubel: Well, hello, everyone. It is January 21, 2025 Welcome to Episode 161 of On Record PR, where we deep dive into the strategies and insights that matter most to law firm leaders. I’m Gina Rubel, CEO and General Counsel of Furia Rubel communications, and I’m going to be speaking with Jennifer Simpson Carr, our Vice President of Strategic Development, here at Furia Rubel. She had the opportunity to speak this morning to our dear friend, Renee Branson, who is a resilience renegade, and that is also the name of her book, to talk about some resilience strategies that are really necessary today with everything that’s going on in the world. So I want to just bring everybody up to speed. We spoke to or Jennifer spoke to Renee this morning, and unfortunately, the recording didn’t take Jennifer. Tell us what happened.

Jennifer Simpson Carr: Sure, so Renee is usually joining us when she’s chatting with us from Virginia, but this morning, she was gracious enough to call in very early Pacific time, she was called out as a volunteer to the Pasadena area to support the survivors of the LA wildfires, and she’s supporting families who are going through the most difficult time of their lives, and is really doing incredible work to help support a community that is navigating a very challenging time. So she was gracious enough to get up very early and give us her time this morning, and the recording didn’t take but she left me with a tremendous amount of information and insight that I hope I can help recapture today, and we will have her back hopefully next week.

Gina Rubel: Yes, and you know, so Renee, if you’re listening to this, we love you. We send you lots of love and light, and thank you for being who you are out in LA and we send our heartfelt, our heartfelt care? I don’t know what the right word is. What do you say to people who’ve lost everything? And part of the reason that the recording didn’t work isn’t because we were using our standard technologies. It was because she didn’t have Wifi you tried on FaceTime, and what did we learn? We learned that FaceTime disables the recording for privacy purposes, so it’s okay. This is about resilience, and it’s about learning lessons and you tried, and I’m thankful for that. And Renee, we will have you back on but more importantly, we want to share your message with people.

Gina Rubel: So Jennifer, when, it’s a tough time and people have lost their homes. They’ve lost their communities, and in fact, you know, many may lose their, what we consider to be rights, civil rights, as a result of the new administration. What are some of the resources or ideas that Renee shared with you on what how people can get through these hard times?

Jennifer Simpson Carr: Yeah, so specific to law firm leaders, she kind of started big picture by talking about the real impact on mental and physical well being that prolonged or heightened fear, whether it’s perceived or real, and anxiety have on an individual.

So it’s first acknowledging that that exists, whether it’s an individual or, in many cases, an individual’s loved one that might be in those positions. So I think it was kind of acknowledging that this fear, this anxiety, may or may not be new to people, but may be now either heightened or they may be feeling like it’s a prolonged period of time, because, as we’ve seen in the last 24 hours with social Media and the news. Not only is it the information we’re getting fed kind of minute by minute, but it’s anxiety around the fact that it’s changing, that we could get new news minute by minute.

Gina Rubel: Right, So she mentioned something for employers, what is one of the tools that employers might have in place for their employees to look into?

Jennifer Simpson Carr: Yeah, so she mentioned that many law firms have EAP’s, employee assistance programs, and so that’s a great place to start. They may already be built into health insurance policies, but she, also had mentioned to me to encourage leadership, to look into local resources that may align with the individuals that you have within your offices or law firms.

Gina Rubel: Did she mention what kind of local resources like the categories? And if not, we’ll certainly ask her that question when we have her on again.

Jennifer Simpson Carr: Yeah, she just said that there’s different, from what I remember, different organizations that can support groups of individuals in times of need and they may be different in your communities.

Gina Rubel: Did Renee share what she’s seeing and how bad it is out in LA? I know when you came on the morning meeting this morning, you were pretty shaken up.

Jennifer Simpson Carr: I think that area is going through a devastating time, and they’re lucky to have someone as calm and as resilient as Renee being a face that can help lead them through this. I think, not specific to her, but probably, I don’t want to speak for her,what impacts her is that one thing we talked about is, in these times, leaders are expected to be that, they’re expected to lead, they’re expected to be strong, they’re expected to show up, particularly in law firms where there are high stress, high stakes environments, and that something we all need to remember is that our leaders, whether it be by title or just someone who has stepped into a leadership role by nature, are humans too, and they too, need to focus on their mental and physical well being. Something that she said that really resonated with me as I was thinking about how to show up on our morning call this morning as a member of the leadership team, is to demonstrate, what we say, practice what you preach. So for example, saying that you need to take a break and actually taking the break, or, you know, walking the hallways and just just putting yourself in a position where you’re demonstrating by your actions what you hope that others will do to take care of themselves.

Gina Rubel: So Jen, somehow, like, today seems like the day of Murphy’s Law. So my TV went on. I don’t know if you could hear in the background, but my TV actually just turned on by itself and is making noise.

That was the craziest thing ever, right? And that, you know, I think for our listeners, this is life, right? We’re recording a podcast live. Stuff happens in the world. It’s never perfect. As you mentioned, you spoke with Renee Branson, who’s on the ground helping families, in particular, children who have lost everything to deal with their well being. And so we know we’re not doing Renee justice, but we do want to bring this message to the audience this week, and hope to have her back on and so of course, it’s been an insane day, right? It’s been an insane two days that, being said, you shared a story with me that I really appreciated. Part of your conversation with Renee was about when someone is upset, giving them choices in how you show up. And I thought that was interesting, because just last week, when we were together, a couple team at you and me and our other teammate, Doreen, I had gotten some pretty upsetting news, and, I couldn’t really talk about it, I shared with you, and yet, we had work to do. We had a client meeting that we were preparing for, and I was trying not to cry. And Doreen said, “Can I give you a hug?” And I said, “No, because if you do, I’m going to cry, and I can’t cry right now. I have to put it behind. I have to suppress it for now to get through the next couple of hours.” So what was that advice that Renee shared with you about showing up? for other people, because I thought it was really interesting.

Jennifer Simpson Carr: Yeah, so it was, from a proactive and reactive perspective. So she had mentioned, as a leader, you obviously can ask people how they’re doing, if they’re okay, and maybe they’re okay in this moment, but as I said before, they can change at any point, and then asking, which, I think is brilliant, “How will I know if you’re not okay?” Because we know ourselves the best. So what kind of signs or tells? She called them, tells, almost like playing cards, right? Will I see if you’re not okay? And what can I do to support you? And the answer might be different. Will be different for everyone. Maybe they need time and space. Maybe they need to bury themselves in work. Maybe they need to take a walk, I mean, but I thought that was really brilliant to say, Okay, that’s great. You’re okay right now, but how am I going to know if that’s not the case? And what do you what can I do to support you?

Gina Rubel: I love that. You know, we know our family members really well. I have a particular family member if I say, “Are you okay?” And they say, “I’m fine”, and I know that the word fine means they’re not fine, right? But we don’t know that about people that we don’t know well. So that’s a great question to ask. She also shared with you something about choices.

Jennifer Simpson Carr: Yeah, so giving someone the choice, can I give you space? Or, you know, I see that you’re going through a hard time, can I give you the space right now? Can I give you a hug? Or can I just sit with you and, you know, giving them options as how you can support them, or the way that ways that you’re going to show up to be present in their time of need.

Gina Rubel: I think that’s so interesting, because not everybody, which this was one of the hard lessons for me to learn in life. Not everybody wants to be touched. I’m, you know, we talk about this all the time. I’m Italian. I hug everybody. I’m very, you know, that’s just me. I don’t know how not to hug someone. And yet, there are many people who I’ve met who are like, yeah, no, I really don’t want to hug and they mean that it’s not it’s not about you, it’s about them. That’s not going to help them feel better, that could actually trigger them in some other way. So by giving people the choices for you to show up the way they need you to show up, not the way you need them to show up for you, it’s a tough lesson to learn in life, but it’s a great lesson. And I think you know just from your conversation with Renee giving people choices on how you show up, and then asking, well, how will I know if you’re not okay, is brilliant.

Gina Rubel: Were there any other key things that you talked about today that we should share with our listeners, or should we just wait until we can get her back on the show?

Jennifer Simpson Carr: So I’m going to tell you what I learned as something I’m going to carry with me now, and I’m going to think about it a lot and who I’ll be reaching out to, but to show up with consistency, there are so many people right now whose sense of self is being, challenged. Yeah, right. Can I show up as my authentic self in this world, and if we as individuals have always accepted them, then we need to continue to accept them that way and to give them consistency where they may not find it in other places. She used the word consistency many times, and I thought that was it was just a really good reminder that how we showed up yesterday, for our teammates and for our family members and our community doesn’t need to change today. I know oftentimes I feel like I’m one person. What can I do? But I can show up for the people that need me the way that I’ve always showed up and accept them for who they are and love them for who they are. The other thing I thought, as part of that, that was really interesting, is we can’t determine who we’re a safe space for. We can’t tell someone that we are a safe space, that’s their choice to make, but we can remind them that we want to be a safe space for them. They have to choose that we are that for them, right? Because everyone feels differently, putting themselves in different situations. But something I’m going to take away is reminding many people in my life that I want to be a safe space for them so that that they can, you know, tap me if they need me.

Gina Rubel: And I know you’re on the verge of tears, and I am too. I could see it in your eyes, and we’ve worked together for five years, and have known each other much, much longer. And I know that this is a tough conversation, but it’s the authenticity of showing up for people, and it’s okay to be sad. It’s okay to be vulnerable. And I want to be that, not only for you, Jennifer, but for our whole team and for our clients. So part of this exercise in delivering a more serious message today is to demonstrate how we can show up for others and for us at Furia Rubel and for the podcast On Record PR, it’s about letting leaders know it’s okay to show up and be vulnerable, whether you’re the leader of a big law firm, and I think many of them learned that during COVID, they learned that it’s okay to be vulnerable. It’s okay to show that this is not easy. It was okay for the first time in my entire career to be a working parent, no matter if you’re a woman or a man, and for the kids to walk in the room and be like, Oh, no, what am I going to do? My kids are in the room, and I’m on a meeting with a… you know, it was okay. And so I just want to say to you, thank you for being you, Jennifer, for for showing up the way you do on our team. And I’m going to one more shout out to Renee, and then I’m going to ask you to close us down for this episode. But Renee, thank you. And to all the first responders out in LA to the families, we will keep an eye out on what we can do to support all of you and for anyone else out there listening who is in a marginalized community feeling frightened alone, scared, we hear you, and we will keep bringing resources to you and to the law firms that we represent so that we can continue to lead by example. So Jennifer, close us off.

Jennifer Simpson Carr: Yes, so I want to encourage you to visit our show notes, You can learn more about us. But in this episode, we also want to honor Renee and her contributions, so we will include the contact information in case you would like to tap into Renee as an incredible resource. We appreciate you tuning in today and we welcome your feedback on this episode and on our new podcast format, you can email us at podcast@onrecordpr.com, send us ideas for topics and future insights that you’d like to gain. And we hope if you’ve enjoyed this episode, you’ll leave us a review on iTunes. Thank you, Gina, and we’ll see everybody next week.

Gina Rubel: See you next week.

Renee Branson can be reached by email at rb@reneebranson.com and at 434-326-6620 by phone, or the contact page on her website.